Saturday, October 13, 2007

All Over October

Because having a Met free October has really given me nothing to do, and because I can't help but think that either Kaz Matsui or Tony Clark may...quite possibly...exit this 2007 baseball season with a ring, I did some research.

You wouldn't believe what I found.

And you wouldn't believe I found it because:
  • somebody else didn't think of this first, or...
  • Metstradamus has no life.

I wanted to find the last World Series Champion whose roster had been completely devoid, throughout their entire championship season, of a player who had previously spent time with the Mets. I figured it would be easy enough to find this out through the incomparable Baseball Reference website. You could have done this yourself, but you've most likely found better things to do than to wonder about such things.

Last season, we all bemoaned the fact that Braden Looper got himself a World Series ring.

In 2005, the White Sox featured Carl Everett and Timo Perez.

Yes, that Timo Perez.

The curse-breaking 2004 Red Sox had Pedro Astacio on their roster at some point...along with Jersey Bobby Jones for three games.

Surely, there had to be a recent team not to have an ex-Met on it, right?

2003 featured the Florida Marlins, with Lenny "Pork Chop" Harris.

The 2002 Rally Monkeys had Donne Wall in their bullpen.

All right, the 2001 Diamondbacks. They couldn't have had an ex-Met on their roster, right? Wrong...they had Armando Reynoso.

(Mind you, we're not talking about future Mets like Jay Bell and Mike DiFelice...only players who had already spent time in Flushing when they were on a team that went on to win the World Series.)

Uh-oh. Now I'm starting to get worried, because those Yankee teams featured plenty of ex-Mets, much to our Jose Vizcaino killed the Mets in the 2000 Series, 1999 featured David Cone, and 1998 had Darryl Strawberry. Even the '97 Marlins had Bobby Bonilla.

I think I'm starting to get sick.

The 1996 Yankees had Dwight Gooden along with Strawberry, which at the time was bad enough.

All right, the 1995 Braves...there's a team that couldn't have possibly had a former Met on it, right?

Oh damn, their back-up catcher was Charlie O'Brien. And they also had Alejandro Pena. (Yeesh!)

The 1993 Blue Jays had plenty of future Mets like Al Leiter, Shawn Green, and Carlos Delgado. But former Mets? Just one...Dick Schofield (yet one is enough).

The '92 Jays had our friend David Cone.

The Twins in 1991 were loaded with them, partly thanks to the Frank Viola trade, between Kevin Tapani and David West. They also had Tom Edens and Junior Ortiz. Remember those two? Edens pitched one game for the Mets, and I believe it was in Los Angeles...and he wore number 32. Why must God curse me with a memory full of useless things while I lose my house keys five times a day?

(Actually, he pitched two games for the Mets, so I don't feel too bad. But I was right about the Dodgers.)

The Reds in 1990 had Randy Myers and Herm Winningham.

The 1989 Athletics...and believe me, this is a stretch...but they did have ,for 79 very mediocre at bats, a guy named Billy Beane.

Don't remind me about 1988 and Dodger reliever Jesse Orosco.

The Twins in 1987? Would you believe Beane again? (Along with a guy named Jeff Reardon.)

And that brings us to 1986, our last title.

And wouldn't you know it, the 1985 Kansas City Royals featured nobody who had previously worn the Mets uniform.

So besides the fact that I have absolutely nothing to do with my time thanks to the collapse, it should tell you that the Red Sox shouldn't measure their fingers for rings just yet (the Red Sox are devoid of former Mets on their roster, while Cleveland features Chip Caray's favorite pitcher: Paul Byrd).

It should tell you that when the 2007 Mets' roster turns over, at least one of the jettisoned players will win a ring in '08 and make us sigh. (And it gives Tampa Bay some hope...Thanks again, Jim Duquette.)

And it tells us that the only way to break this cycle is for the Mets to win the series their own selves. Or else, the curse continues.


Ceetar said...

It's a stretch, but the Red Sox hitting coach is Dave Magadan. Maybe that'll be enough for thtem.

choo choo said...

Let me add to the mess.

The 87 Twins also had Juan Berenguer play in that WS. He also pitched for the 84 Tigers.

Danny Heep played in the playoffs for the 88 Dodgers.

Alex Trevino had a cup of coffee for the Reds in 90.

The Twins 91 WS team included Rick Aguilera as well as old friend Terry Leach.

Pat Tabler had 2 ABs in the WS for the 92 Blue Jays.

Brief appearances for Paul Gibson and Wally Whitehurst with the 96 Yanks.

Ryan Thompson and Lance Johnson with the 00 Yanks.

02 Angels may have had Donne Wall in their pen, but the WS team featured recently departed Kevin Appier as well as phenom to be Alex Ochoa. Jorge Fabregas also played that season.

Toby Borland 03 Marlins.

You may remember Ricky Gutierrez in all the celebration photos as he traveled with his 04 Red Sox during the postseason.

The 06 Cards were loaded with Gary Bennett, Timo again, Jose Vizcaino again. Remember Mookie wearing the Cardinal hat on the 20th anniversary of the Mets 86 championship, the night that his son Preston won his ring for St. Louis?

katherine said...

I am trying to think about this theory scientifically -
Your observation is that every year since 1986 all world series champs have had ex-mets on their active roster.
Your hypothesis to explain this coincidence is that the Mets winning a world championship themselves is neccesary to end this embarrassing string of ex-met-aided world series wins.
What disproves your hypothesis,though, is that the last time the Mets DID win it all was following a no-ex-met-in-the-WS year.

So the only other rational explanation (one which caused an icy hand to grasp my heart) is:
Mets fans were mistakenly given too much joy in 1986. So long as ex-Mets continue to win World Series rings, actual Mets never can. And this will go on til all the 86 fans are dead.

And what do you mean, Metstradamus, you have no life? Are you suggesting that what's going on in this blog is not normal?

Ceetar said...

Hmm, actually thinking about it more, maybe it's the other way around. maybe we should be rooting for Boston, because since they have no ex-met Players, if they win this year, we'll win next year.

Ed in Westchester said...

Happy belated birthday 'Damus.

Anonymous said...

Just a little note: Kaz Matsui is the post-season leader with seven RBIs.


Bangbay said...

Interesting observation. I also wonder in every year that the Mets didn't win the World Series, if they had someone on their roster who used to play for the team that did win the World Series. For the past few years, a few pop up in my head. 2006 Cardinals - Darren Oliver. 2005 White Sox - Roberto Hernandez. 2004 Red Sox - Cliff Floyd. 2003 Marlins - Mike Piazza.

My memory doesn't go back any further and research would be too much trouble.

Would the solution be to stick to our home grown players so that they can be neither ex-Mets or exes from other teams?

Demitri said...

I wonder if all this "six degrees of the New York Mets" stuff if just that. Couldn't similar research find that the same is true for most other teams (stinkers/new expansion teams excluded of course, like the Devil Rays).

I used to get into arguments with my late father about this very fact. He would often lament the plethora of former Mets going on to do great things somewhere else.

At least Mike Hampton doesn't have a ring yet.

Demitri said...

I almost forgot, what do you think of Schoeneweis and Mota for to Boston for Gagne.

I can dream can't I?

katherine said...

Demitri, are you speaking ironically? Because that sounds more like a nightmare - Gagne has been BAD for the Sox, he's driving the fans crazy, imagine how terrible he'd be for us.

choo choo said...

I'd rather have Greg Gagne than Eric Gagne.

Jeterboy said...

Just a response to the Torre comments last week from the Metsies on the site.

To "Toasty Joe" - "seven year drought is unacceptable by Yankee standards". Yes, it is. When you have a winning years is unacceptable and 18 years is horrible. And yes..I lived through it so I really appreciated the good times that followed. The 21 years is a long time for the Mets as well....I believe they haven't had a drought that long since they played at the Polo Grounds.

To Katherine - Yes you have to expect to hear from us because Metstra wrote about the Yankees. The Torre connection is interesting and its the biggest story in NY baseball right now. Everything with the Mets right now is comatose. Why do I visit the site...Metstra is a personal friend and I like his stuff.

And for Choo choo and others - No mention of el capitan..."mr. double play". Yes - he was bad in this series. But when you lead the team to 4 world championships, six pennants, and 10 division titles, YOU GET A LIFETIME PASS. If he were a Met, he'd be a god after one pennant...forget anything else. It seemed like Reyes had a lifetime pass for doing nothing at Shea and was being compared to el capitan? Boy the comparisons with Garciaparra, A-Rod, and Reyes have gone nowhere haven't they? And now Met fans have dropped Reyes like a hot rag.

Pay Rod didn't do any of this and has stunk it up in clutch time over four seasons. Met fans should know that performing for most of the regular season is meaningless unless you can close the deal. The A-Rod sympathizer may want to take him since he/she believes that May/June performance is everything.

choo choo said...

Any chance of Jeets lending his pass to Torre? They have the same resume.

Jeterboy said...

choo - good point. I guess that's what they'll be deliberating in Tampa this week. The manager always takes the fall before the player in U.S professional sports. Its the easier move (compared to jettisoning the player) and it wouldn't be the first time that an HOF manager was let go.

Unser said...

Junior Ortiz was still playing in 1991?!?

You're spending your time more productively than I am. I'm thinking of ways to jettison Mota, Sosa and Schoenweis in a manner which exorcises the demons of 2007.

Demitri said...


Of course, my suggestion was tongue in cheek, but just think about it, we would get rid of TWO of our bullpen failures and take a flyer on Gagne. I doubt he could do any worse than our guys from Sept 12th on...

And maybe Peterson can fix him (in about 5 minutes)!!

katherine said...

sorry, Demitri, I seem to be saying the wrong thing a lot lately - I guess my sarcasm-ometer was malfunctioning. I suppose having ONE really bad reliever is better than having two. I am also biased against Gagne, as when I saw him in the most recent Sox game, with his scraggly beard and techno eye glasses, I thought he looked like a serial killer. I just don't want to look at that 162 nights every year.

Demitri said...


no offense taken. I think the entire Met universe is a bit on edge these days., myself included.

Re: serial killers, I think I might be open to one if they could get some outs after the 6th inning.

Toasty Joe said...

Hey Metstra - FYI, the 1985 Kansas City Royals had a coach by the name of Jimmie Schaffer, who apparently suited up for the 1965 Mets for a grand total of 24 games (he hit an impressive .135). Not sure if this blows your theory out of the water, but I had fun looking it up.

Toasty Joe said...

And Jeterboy - my point in bringing up the 18-year gap is that ever since 1996, Yankee fans walk around like it's their God-given right to win the World Series every year, and if they don't heads must roll. If that's the case, what were you doing those 18 years before 1996? That must have been excruciating. I'm surprised you didn't swear off baseball or check yourself into a mental institution.

Metstradamus said...


I was only looking at my theory is still intact. If I counted coaches I think my head would explode.

G.W. Bush said...

The reason why the Mets and Yankees have not won a World Series in so long is simple: They have fallen away from GOD.

God is the reason that the Colorado Rockies are on a miraculous run, winning 21 out of 22 games and headed to the World Series--which they surely will win.

It is Destiny, and all part of HIS divine plan.

The Rockies are a faith-based team from ownership, to management, down to the players.

They are God's Team.

Onward Christian Rockies!


"Batting for Jesus"

"Baseball's Rockies seek revival on two levels"

"Destiny's team? Rockies just might be"

katherine said...

At the risk of seeming like an unwell person, or a person with no life, I will report to you all the results of a study I conducted, after reading GW Bush's last comment and accompanying articles. I reviewed the active rosters of the Colorado Rockies, the Mets and the Yankees, as reported on and came up with the following results:
Rockies: 18 white, 6 hispanic, 1 african-american, 1 asian
Mets: 15 white, 18 hispanic, 2 african american, 1 jewish
Yankees: 11 white, 10 hispanic, 1 african american, 3 asian (including pacific islands)

My conclusions, (other than, I will not be prepared for the talk I am supposed to give at work tomorrow):

How did the Mets lose when they seem to have so many more players than the Rockies and the Yanks?

There is a player on the Yankees whose middle name is Kiheimahanaomauiakeo

The Rockies have more hispanic players than the articles suggested. But while I didn't do a statistical analysis, there seems to be a significant difference between the Mets and the Rockies in their percentage of hispanic players. 51% vs 23%

None of the teams had many african americans

choo choo said...

Yanks and Rockies were playoff teams. Therefore they have 25 man rosters listed. Mets didn't make playoffs, so they still have expanded September 40 man roster listing.

Anonymous said...

Hey you forgot, Jorge Julio might get a ring too!