Thursday, November 02, 2006

The Results Are In

And it seems that I've been sentenced to death for my actions.

Please know I never meant to hurt you with my trade proposal.

It's OK, because with my months of service, the call of reprieve from the governor will come at any time.

Oh damn, it's an election year? I guess I'm as good as dead.

My last request is simple: Please don't shoot me in the face so I can have an open casket.

Milledge for Crawford anyone? Anyone? I can change, dammit! Really!!! I can chaaaaaaaannge!!!!!!!!


beezermess said...

How about Milledge for Kazmir and then sign Soriano?

Yeah I know TB would not do it....just trying to right the wrong....

Anonymous said...

My two cents:

Jose Reyes, SS
Paul Lo Duca, C
Carlos Beltran, CF
Carlos Delgado, 1B
David Wright, 3B
Ray Durham, 2B - FA
Green/Mench, LF - Trade for Mench; Brewers have a glut of OF's; will come cheap
Milledge/Chavez, RF

Starting Rotation:
Dontrelle Willis/Barry Zito - Trade Milledge + Humber/FA
Javier Vazquez - Trade Heilman
Tom Glavine - Re-sign
John Maine
Oliver Perez

Billy Wagner
Duaner Sanchez
Justin Speier - FA
Chad Braford - Re-sign
Pedro Feliciano
Henry Owens
Royce Ring

Ramon Castro, C
Anderson Hernandez, 2B/SS
Tony Graffanino, INF - FA
Endy Chavez, OF
Kevin Mench, OF
Shawn Green, RF/LF

Franco - Coach!

beezermess said... you don't get Zito, but you trade Humber, Heilman and Milledge for:
Dontrelle Willis---rather have Zito..
Javy Vazquez--he couldn't pitch in NY before, what would make that change...
Kevin Mench---who is going to stay with the Brewers....Jenkins is the odd man out....
and then you want to sign Ray Durham...

Your two cents don't make any sense!

chris said...

Humber, Bannister and Bell for Crawford. Tampa doesn't need another outfielder but theyt did say they wanted young pitching.

Ed in Westchester said...

Metstra - You know, for a second, just a second, I thought you had lost a bet to someone and that he wrote that proposal.

beezermess - problem is Kazmir had arm issues at the end of the season. I have not seen anything of late about him. What if this is a long term issue?

anonymous - Green has little LF experience. Given his adventures in right, I would be loathe to move him to left.
Humber is not ready yet. He was just shut down for the winter as well.
I agree with beezer on Vazquez, though as a middle guy (#3) he might work.
Royce Ring sucks.

beezermess said...


Hey I was just wishing about getting Kazmir back...I do however know about the arm issues...I hope these are "non-issues"...I, unlike Jim Duquette, did not trade him....
Tell me how you really feel about Royce Ring....

Ed in Westchester said...

beezer - OK, I get it now. I wish the trade did not happen as well. I just hate going over what ifs when it comes to trades made.

As you can guess, that is all I read about on Isles boards.

beezermess said...

we can go all day with Mad I can go all day with crap the Rangers did....

Mike said...

Humber, Heilman and Milledge for:
Dontrelle Willis

Way too much for Willis. WAY too much.

Humber, Bannister and Bell for Crawford.

And TB accepts this bucket of trash for their best player because:

(a) They're dumb
(b) You want them to do it, so I guess they should
(c) The firing squad misses Metstra and hits the TB GM just as he's about to speak and his scream of agony is misinterpreted as a "Yes"
(d) Crawford visits Iraq and loses his leg to a land mine?

C'mon guys. We shoudl at least suggest serious offers if we're gonna play this game.

the king said...

Hese's some crazy talk...
WHy doesnt Soriano play SECOND BASE?

Milledge can play left, and ta-da the lineup is no longer lefty dominated, because Soriano and Milledge hit lefties very well.

And for pitching, sign 2 out of Zito, Jeff Suppan, and Gil Meche, whose name should come up WAY more often than it does

Ed in Westchester said...

we can go all day with Mad Mike

The only all day on Mad Mike I want is the beating I want to administer.
With his own shoe.
Make that skate.

The man could draft. He should never have been allowed to trade.

The GIAMBALCO said...

THe GIAMBALCO's juice can really help the Mets win a chomponship!

DFrank11 said...

Trade #1 ... Pelfry and Maine for Crawford.

Trade #2 ... Milledge and Heilman for Dontrelle

FA move #1 ... sign Zito

FA move #2 ... sign Soriano

Result ... Mets win World Series. They spend a boatload of money to do it and part with some prospects, but hey, it's only money.


Metstradamus said...

See, I don't think Milledge and Heilman alone get you Dontrelle. There may have been a time last season when that was the case, but not now.

I value Pelfrey more than Milledge at this juncture. And I'm a little leery about trading Maine.

Mike said...

Why is everyone so down on Milledge?

He'll be 22 at the start of the season. He proved he could handle ML pitching (his numbers are poor for a vet, but exactly what you'd expect for a 21 year-old in limited time).

Is it "the attitude"? The glove? I don't get it.

Tommy_Calzone said...

its the thought of Greg Jeffries II
that I cant stomach.

trade while he still has SOME value left especially if you can get Dontrelle or Peavy etc....

Adoniram said...

Mike said:

"Humber, Heilman and Milledge for:
Dontrelle Willis

Way too much for Willis. WAY too much."

I respectfully disagree. If anything it's not enough. I wouldn't take that trade if I were the Marlins.

-Heilman is a top flight middle reliever or else a starter with little success but some upside.

-Humber has already had injury issues.

-Milledge is a legit prospect but not a can't miss.

Willis is incredibly young and is on trajectory for a Hall of Fame type career. On top of that he's a great personality and has loads of star quality. A franchise player.

So not only is that not "WAY" too much, it's probably not enough.

Unser said...

Hysterical post MD! Love it when you get your history cap on.

My three cents - this is not a year to gut a large portion of the team (which made it to Game 7 of the NLCS) and sign a ton of free agents. Let's talk about our needs:

1. One or two front line starters.
2. A second baseman and/or a leftfielder (if they trade Milledge).
3. A bench, preferably with some decent right handed hitting.

I like the Humber, Heilman and Milledge for Willis deal. This is realistic - does anyone really think Florida is stupid enough to accept less for a player that young, that good and secured, at a low salary, for the next few years? Florida may not even accept Humber (who has a history of injury problems) Milledge (who is unproven, and has a history of behavioral problems) and Heilman (the only proven commodity coming their way). Whether or not a trade can be made for a front line starter, I think they should go after Zito.

If they part with Heilman, they must get back top quality. Feliciano is expendable, but I would not be so quick to dump Heilman, unless we're getting something Dontrelle-ish in return.

Any takers on Adam Kennedy? I like this option - I saw an article somewhere in which AK mentioned his desire to play for the Mets. Negatory on Ray Durham - he's old, not that good, and I always hated the '84 Cubs, who featured Leon Durham.

If Milledge is traded, I like the idea of pursuing either Soriano or Lee, and putting Anderson Hernandez at second. Whatever happens, I am begging Omar not to trade for Sheffield, PLEASE.

beezermess said...

Why is everyone so high on Dontrelle Willis? this and this to get him...why make these trade to get Willis when you DON'T have to give up anybody to get Zito or Schmidt. You can keep Pelfrey and Humber and Milledge. The Mets are in the biggest media market in the world and they have theit own network...I am not saying to spend $200 million, but let's use the money to tweak the present so we can preserve the future....

Unser said...

Willis is a significant upgrade over Zito and Schmidt - young, hard-thrower, great personality. He's the perfect guy to head the rotation for years to come. Also the guy you want facing Howard, Utley, etc - hitters we will have to deal with over the next 5 - 7 years at least.

But I agree that the chances are Florida has no interest in dealing him. Hope I'm wrong.

beezermess said...

I do not see Willis as an "ACE" of the staff. I also believe that Scott Olsen and Josh Johnson have better upside to become an "Ace" in Florida than Willis...
Zito and Schmidt are proven winners...while Schmidt is 33; Zito is 28 years old and a former Cy Young Winner...remember who the pitching coach was...hint..he is with us now....
Willis is overrated in my opinion and I think the Mets would be fools to overpay for him with prospects and give the pitching-rich Florida Marlins more arms...

dcmetfan said...

A lot of people here are completely overrating Willis. He had a tremendous year in 2005, but for the most part, he's been a little bit below average. he posted a 3.87 ERA this past year (good, not great), a 1.419 WHIP (not good), a 2:1 K:BB ratio (mediocre at best) and a pedestrian 112 ERA+ (100 being average). His career numbers are about the same.

I don't care if wears his hat to the side and is the goofier than the putz who stands in Gallant's shadow, he's not worth quite as much as people seem to think he is.

Then again, neither is Schmidt, who is on the downslope of a career. Zito - maybe. But I'd rather overpay slightly monetarily for a guy like Zito than to overpay in players for someone like Willis on the assumption that he's a dominating ace. He isn't.

Mike said...

For me, the reason I don't wanna give up too much for Willis is this: 800+ innings before his 25th birthday, and 430 the past two seasons.

Combine that with his weird delivery and I'm not willing to give up our number one prospect, who's already proven he can play.

Sign Willis as a free agent, under the same circumstances? Yes. But not giving up three players.

Unser said...


I hear what you're saying on Willis, especially that his last 2 years have been a bit sub-par, but I have to disagree with you. He's a stud.

Also, what's up with the emphasis on Rick Peterson? Does anyone really think he's going to turn Zito into Sandy Koufax? Remember the last time we thought Peterson was the X factor?

I do like Zito, and I think Omar should go after him. But he's not Koufax or Koosman, nor is he Dontrelle. He's a soft tosser (much like Glavine), which is fine, but we need a guy who can throw heat too.

beezermess said...

While I agree with the your sentiment on Willis...If I had to choose between Willis or Schmidt in a big game, I am taking Schmidt...I wouldn't call it overpaying for him, but a 3-year, 36 million contract is a fair offer...especially if the Mets are going to offer a 2-year, 25 million deal to Glavine....

beezermess said...

You are putting way too much stock in Dontrelle...and if you did not notice over the last month, the fastball was a tad bit slower....
and your right about Peterson, but I think that we should now give him a pass on was a lose-lose situation no matter what...
By the way...I do not remember Dontrelle having his name on a Cy Young award....and if you want to mention 2003...Beckett and Pavano were the "Aces"; Dontrelle was regulated to the bullpen....

The Metmaster said...

In case you missed it boys and girls, The Mets shut down both Pelfry and Humber from the Arizona Fall League yesterday. Something about aches and pains being experienced by both. I don't like the sound of it.

Anonymous said...

What about the free agent crop of pitchers for next winter after 2007. if there are LOTS of big names to be had then, Omar might be reluctant to spend all the FA money on strating pitching this winter.


beezermess said...

Can't worry about 2008 when we are still trying to get over the 2006 NLCS....You can only do one year at a time...Omar can not wait for 2008...he needs to worry about 2007 and he needs to rebuild the starting staff

The Metmaster said...

One name that nobody on this site has mentioned for a long while....Manny Ramirez.
History has shown that Omar has a very long memory about guys he has a hankering for. There was almost the need for an intervention for him to finally let go of the idea of signing Sosa.(thank God that never happened!) Would Omar dangle Milledge for Manny? The Sox would love the salary relief. Boston is clearly entering a rebuilding phase. Is Manny part of those plans? I think he wants out. And I think the Sox do not want to go through another round of "Manny is Manny" shit. What say you, Met fans? How would that sit with you?

Anonymous said...

Willis on the Mets is automatic insurance against 4-5 losses vs. the Marlins. He can also hit more second-half HRs at Shea than DWright can, too. He also has cojones--what the Mets lacked in many postseason games.

dcmetfan said...


I can go either way in regards to Willis/Schmidt. Schmidt did wind up having a better year than Willis, but as a Schmidt fantasy owner, I recall several big games down the stretch where he just lost it. He hasn't been quite as dominating over the past couple of seasons, but he might be worth it at a slightly discounted price.

beezermess said...

I love Manny Ramirez; one of the best hitter in baseball and a sure Hall of Famer.
I DO NOT want him on the Mets because:
Salary is $20 million
Age: he is 34 (will be 35 in May)
Injuries: nagging knees
attitude: he has one and he also has a "Me-first attitude"
I would rather have Carlos Lee for 5 million less and at age 30 than Manny....

beezermess said...

And how many post-seasons has Dontrelle pitched in? One. Zito? Case closed.
You are making it sound like Dontrelle is the best pitcher in the Majors...he has done nothing to warrant any of this attention.

I have Schmidt too on my Fantasy League, but like I said...if you are going to offer Glavine $25 million for two years and he is 40, then Schmidt has to start there...

The Metmaster said...


I agree. Pedro would probably be able to reign in some of the Manny-tude though. I feel it in my bones that we will pick up the paper this winter and see that Omar has a serious jones to put Manny in leftfield.

chris said...

Regarding Craford for Humber, bannister and Bell. Three weeks ago Tampa indicated they would move Crawford for young pitching (like Kazmir) and named Humber as one of the guys they would be interested in. They have too many outfielders and have indicated that either Carwford or Baldelli will be moved for the right deal.

chris said...

Regarding Craford for Humber, bannister and Bell. Three weeks ago Tampa indicated they would move Crawford for young pitching (like Kazmir) and named Humber as one of the guys they would be interested in. They have too many outfielders and have indicated that either Carwford or Baldelli will be moved for the right deal.

Anonymous said...

Willis is good, beezermess. He LANGUISHES playing for the Marlins in a dead stadium. NYC pumps him up. Plus how nice it would be to have a Met-killer on the Mets, not pitching against us. Remember--in 1969, Seaver was a terrible postseason pitcher, too.

beezermess said...

Dontrelle is good, but by no means is he an ACE and to mention Seaver and Willis on the same post is insulting to a Hall of Fame Pitcher...
I also wouldn't say he is languishing in Florida...They have a great nucleus down there. If there is anybody down there going to get traded, it is Miguel Cabrera...

adoniram said...

Why is everyone so high on Willis?

Maybe because he has a career 3.44 ERA through four seasons and hasn't hit his prime yet. Maybe because he finished second in the Cy Young in 2005.

Dontrelle Willis is a franchise player in my opinion. The only thing that makes me at all nervous about him, as somebody else already said, is that he has thrown a lot of innings on his young arm and he does have a quirky delivery that might be putting undue strain on his elbow.

Other than that, you simply don't get guys like Willis coming along every year. Anytime you can get a proven performer who's as young as a prospect you have to do it. Most guys his age are putting up 3.44 ERAs in AAA ball and are still considered blue chip prospects.

That said, the Marlins aren't gonna deal him and if they are we'll need to really put up a lot of talent in return.

Manny for Milledge is an interesting one though. I think the Sox would actually do that but it's a matter of how many years Manny has left. Also, he doesn't fit in with the character of our team any better than Milledge does. So there's that as well.

Ed in Westchester said...

I read a report today on Carlos Lee that said a couple of interesting things. One, that Houston is a probable destination, since it is close to his home. Two, that he wieghs 270 lbs. We do not need Mo Vaugh Part Duex.

As for Dontrelle, he is good, but there has been some concern about his motion.

I prefer Zito. He's 28, consistent, and pitchers moving from the AL to the NL have done quite well the past couple of years. Ask Pedro. Or Clemens. Or Pettitte.

As for Manny, he has the injury history. We already have a defense issue in right with Green. Putting another in left means Beltran is going to have to cover an awful lot of ground.

Crawford - With Humber being shut down, his value may be low. Maybe Heilman instead?
And yes Mike, I just said trade for Crawford. The cost in my opinion is not too high. Heilman can be replaced.

Seaver a terrible postseason pitcher in 1969? The same Seaver who went 1-1 in the WS with an ERA of 3? That Tom Seaver?
Anonymous, please, you must be kidding. Willis at this point cannot hold Seavers jock.

He slumped at the end of the 2003 season, hence, he was in the pen for the playoffs. He slumped at the end of 2004. Fell off a little at the end of 2005. As for languishing, the other guys seemed to do OK.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm...nobody mentioning a certain Japanese pitcher that can be had by, gasp, money? And it tweaks a certain Bronx team to grab those headlines, too? Sure, Japan and the Mets haven't had much luck, but really, I bet he even hits better than Kaz...

The Metmaster said...

I'm not hyperventilating over "D-Mat". He's thrown a ton of innings in his career, and his so-called Gyro Ball is nothing but a cutter. For 20-30 million just to get in the game to talk to him, I say "sayonara".
Let's all cut to the chase. The Mets post season success will be all about signing Zito. All it's going to take is money to get him. I think he wants the Mets, he wants to be with Peterson again, he wants to play in a big town in front of big crowds, he wants the post-season. Add the fact that he comes to the National League, where they play the game as God invented it, and he could be a potential Hall of Famer, and don't for a second think that Omar and the Wilpons won't bring that up. Yeah, it's going to be a sell-job because he is a California surfer dude, but Omar has pulled bigger rabbits out of the hat the last two winters. It all begins with Zito. It's a perfect fit. Get him and the rest of the puzzle will fall into place. Get him and put a package together for another front-line starter and we're on our way to another October, but deeper into the month this time. Get all the above and snag Soriano for 2nd base and we are in Fat City. With that kind of firepower from the infield (Delgado, Soriano, Reyes, Wright, DeLuca), add Beltran in center, you can somehow "survive" with Green in RF and a "ham and egger" in left. It all begins with Zito.....

The Metmaster said...

One more item for the hopper. Pedro told the AP today that if his shoulder is still in the shitter next year he will consider retirement. The Mets have to approach 2007 under the assumption that Pedro will not be part of it. He said he is not touching a baseball until March. We are looking at late June/mid-July as best case if he comes back at all. I really think that they have to look at any Pedro contribution next season as found money.

The Lone Met Fan said...

I agree with most on here. Do what we can to get Willis!! And, if not for Rocky 4, i wouldnt believe you can change.....

adoniram said...

Well said Metmaster...

When a friend was describing the "gyroball" to me, I was like, "isn't that just a cut fastball?" Evidently it's not but I still fail to understand the difference.

And also well said because basically the off-season does boil down to getting Barry Zito. That's basically it.

We need more than just Zito but add Zito on and we're basically as good a team as we were in 2006. To get over the hump you gotta add more.

MrMetismydad said...

The Newark Star Ledger has a story about the Mets possibly going after Mark Mulder. Here's the link:

Forget a trade for D-Train. All signs point to Barry Zito. Lets see: Sign his best friend. Woo him with the chance to pitch on the Amazins. Re-unite him with Peterson and Mulder. Then, instead of trading for D-Train, use Heilman, Milledge and some young stud pitching in a trade for a left fielder (Manny Ramirez anyone?...just a thought). Minaya is a genious, he can get really creative and he's wanted Manny since he became our GM. Like I said, just a thought. Then sign Julio Lugo to play 2B for far less than Alfonso Soriano and bat him 8th.

Lets see - Zito, Mulder, Peterson - all we need now is Hudson.

Too optimistic?

2007 lineup:

Reyes, SS
Beltran, CF
Delgado, 1B
Ramirez, LF (I'd rather watch him look like crap in left field and hit like an animal than Milledge look like crap in left field and hit like shit)
Wright, 3B (imagine the year he would have batting behind Manny)
LoDuca, C
Green, RF
Lugo, 2B



Waddya think? Crazy?

Mike said...

How many draft choices will Mulder cost? Anyone know if he's restricted, etc?

If they can take a flyer on Mulder without giving up much, why not? He's obviously been nursing some injuries the last year or so, so maybe if he comes back healthy, no reason he can't do something in the 3.75-4.25 range.

You can win on the Mets with those numbers if you stay healthy.